Clones?

[Alan Hartley]

Hi, I'm Alan--

I haven't been a particularly careful tester of engines in the last couple of years, but I'm still a fan of chess and of computer chess in particular. I'm no programmer either, so I don't have an educated opinion on the subject--I was wondering if anyone here has an opinion about the free engines at this site: http://www.cyclonechess.com/FireBird.htm --and about the various claims that 1) Firebird is 50 points stronger than Rybka(!!) and the opinion that seems to prevail at Playchess.com that firebird, ippolit, etc. are reverse-engineered clones.

My own machine is overheating so often that I can't do much testing myself without some kind of work being done. Have any of you tested these engines?

Regardless, hello to fellow enthusiasts from Portland, Oregon, USA.

--Alan

[Graham Banks]

Welcome to our forum.
We will not test any engines or derivatives of engines that have anonymous authors.

Regards,
Graham.

[Alan Hartley]

Interesting. Now that I look I guess I don't see any particular individual claiming authorship. Admittedly this is not a good sign. . .

[Alan Hartley]

On second thought--isn't it Yakov Golyadkin, who says he was born Norman Schmidt? The info seems to be at http://www.cyclonechess.com/kranium.htm .

He claims to have received death threats from the "extreme right computer chess establishment." Which sounds a bit extreme. But then, lunacy and genius aren't an unheard-of combination. . .

[attakinski]

Norman Schmidt is certainly enthousiastic. Not reliable or genius. It will be not the first time he claimes to have made an engine which after a while appears to be an exact copy from another engine.

[Alan Hartley]

Nonetheless Firebird (the 64-bit version, set to run on four threads, all engines given 1024 Mb hash) has beaten the equivalent versions of Rybka, Rybka Human, Naum 4.1, Stockfish and a few others in the first one and a half tourneys I've run. This would suggest that it is stronger, rather than equal in strength as you would expect from a clone. . . of course this is only preliminary and could still be a fluke. . .

[Alan Hartley]

I should add that the first tourney was 4 minute with 2 second increment, and the second is 10-minute with a five second increment. All engines using a very small book (around five half-moves). I think I forgot to turn book learning off, but with such a small book it hardly matters. . .

[Graham Banks]

Doesn't matter what the results are. We will not test engines or derivatives of engines that have anonymous authors as already stated. Individually, we have other reasons also for not testing Ippo and family.

Cheers,
Graham.

[Alan Hartley]

Well, as I've stated, Norman Schmidt doesn't seem actually to be anonymous. As for the "other reasons," it seems to me that I am duty-bound to treat the man and his engine with respect, unless someone shares with me the reasons why I should feel otherwise. I can't just pile on in order to be a member of the in-group.

[Graham Banks]

Well, as I've stated, Norman Schmidt doesn't seem actually to be anonymous. As for the "other reasons," it seems to me that I am duty-bound to treat the man and his engine with respect, unless someone shares with me the reasons why I should feel otherwise. I can't just pile on in order to be a member of the in-group.

Everybody must make their own decision about using such engines. We've made ours as individuals.
Firebird is a derivative of an engine whose authors are anonymous, therefore we won't test it.

[govert]

Well, as I've stated, Norman Schmidt doesn't seem actually to be anonymous. As for the "other reasons," it seems to me that I am duty-bound to treat the man and his engine with respect, unless someone shares with me the reasons why I should feel otherwise. I can't just pile on in order to be a member of the in-group.

Alan, If you're truly interested in what the deal is with this family of engines, I suggest that you sign up for an account at talkchess.com (CCC).
Be aware though; It's a controversial topic, and a lot of noise in there.

[Ben Lau]

Welcome to our forum.
We will not test any engines or derivatives of engines that have anonymous authors.

Regards,
Graham.

Hi, the new version chess engine Hustle 8 deluxe will be released soon with all source code, the author is me.
does that mean you will test it for me ?

BTW: I have retired from the military and the Hustle Chess project will resume. The product is set for a final release on 29 September(The birthday of my best friend Berlusconi)


Cheers,
Ben