Matt in 530 Zügen

[Lutz Neweklowsky]

Matt in 530 Zügen - Wer kann es lösen ?

Weiss : Kd2/Dh1/Th4/Le3/Sb6/Sh2/c6/e6 (8)
Schwarz : Ke5/Dg3/Te7/Tg7/Lb3/Sf6/Sg5/d7 (8)

MfG Lutz Neweklowsky
Draisstr.1
76135 Karlsruhe
mailto:lutz.neweklowsky@gmx.de

[Lutz Neweklowsky]

and here is the solution of #530 , because it is not easy to understand :

die Lösung beginnt dann wie folgt : 1.Lf4+! Dxf4+! 2.Txf4! Kxf4! bis hier noch einfach. Doch welches ist der RICHTIGE 3.Zug von Weiss ? Hier kommt erst einmal ein falscher 3.Zug ( eine Neweklowsky-Verführung : 3.Df1+? Kg3 4.c7 Sge4+ 5.Kd3 Kxh2 6.c8D Tg3+ 7.Kd4 dxe6 8.Dh8+ Th7 9.Dxh7+ Sxh7 10.Kxe4 Ld5 11.Ke5 Sg5 12.Df2+ Kh3 13.Sxd5 exd5 14.Kxd5

und wir haben ein klassisches Remis aus der 5-Steiner-Datenbank. Jeder sollte diese Verführung ruhig einmal in seinen Computer zum Testen eingeben ! Also , welches ist nun der richtige 3.Zug von Weiss ? Die Lösung geht wie folgt weiter :

3.exd7! Sxd7! 4.cxd7! Txd7+! 5.Sxd7! Txd7+! und was jetzt ? Allein mit dem Zug 6.Kc3 !! geht es jetzt zum Gewinn ( aus der 7-Steiner-Datenbank ) Unter http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/chess2/diary_16.htm kann man ersehen was passiert : 522.Dxg5+! und jetzt sind wir in der 6-Steiner-Datenbank und es Matt im 530.Zug. Mein Problem setzt einfach 4 Züge vor eine 7-Steiner-Datenbank.

kindly regards
Lutz Neweklowsky

[jkominek]

In case we have any bilingual friends reading, is Lutz saying that he found a Mate in 530 line by running it into the record-holding DTC mate in 517 of Bourzutschky & Konoval?

jk

[Codeman]

Translation:

Mate in 530 Moves - Who can solve it?

White: Kd2/Qh1/Rh4/Be3/Nb6/Nh2/c6/e6 (8)
Black : Ke5/Qg3/Re7/Rg7/Bb3/Nf6/Ng5/d7 (8)

regards Lutz Neweklowsky
Draisstr.1
76135 Karlsruhe
mailto:lutz.neweklowsky@gmx.de


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and here is the solution of #530 , because it is not easy to understand :

the solution starts as follows : 1.Bf4+! Qxf4+! 2.Rxf4! Kxf4! till here its simple. But what is the correct 3. move of white? First here is a wrong continuation:( a Neweklowsky-seduction : 3.Qf1+? Kg3 4.c7 Nge4+ 5.Kd3 Kxh2 6.c8Q Rg3+ 7.Kd4 dxe6 8.Qh8+ Rh7 9.Qxh7+ Nxh7 10.Kxe4 Bd5 11.Ke5 Ng5 12.Qf2+ Kh3 13.Nxd5 exd5 14.Kxd5

and we have a classic remis from the 5-men egtb. One should try this seduction as a test for his computer! So, what is the correct 3. Move? The solution continues like this:

3.exd7! Nxd7! 4.cxd7! Rxd7+! 5.Nxd7! Rxd7+! and now? Only 6.Kc3 !! lead to the victory ( from the 7-men-egtb ) under http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/chess2/diary_16.htm one can see whats happening : 522.Qxg5+! now we are in a 6-men-egtb and it's mate in 530. My problem simply starts 4 moves before the 7-men-tb.

kindly regards
Lutz Neweklowsky

So you are right, jkominek. Hope it helps.

And a small remark to Nexeklowsky: One can not definitely say that it is a mate in 530, just because the 7-men !! DTC !! - egtb leads to it. There may be a faster continuation that converts later, but into an earlier won sub-endgame.

Edmund

[jkominek]

Thanks for the translation and clarification.

Endgame problems as "seductions for the computer" ... what a smile-inducing thought! Why a box of chocolate coated memory chips and 7-man endgame problems, and my computer is in love.

john

[Lutz Neweklowsky]

Hallo friends of chessproblems ,
my mate in 530 is completely generated to DTM ( not only to DTC ) on my pc , and so there doesn`t exist a shorter solution. Have for example a look at my completely generated mate in 267 in wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_problem
kindly regards
Lutz Neweklowsky
Drais-1
76135 Karlsruhe
Germany
lutz.neweklowsky@gmx.de

[syzygy]

my mate in 530 is completely generated to DTM ( not only to DTC ) on my pc , and so there doesn`t exist a shorter solution.

Did you write a program that minimaxes DTM over all winning lines that start from your position?

[Lutz Neweklowsky]

Hallo syzygy ,
Yes, but I wrote 2 different programs for the #530 :
1.Program : generated from the beginning AFTER 5. ...Rxd7+! ( minimaxes DTM over all winning lines ) with 6.Kc3!
2.Program : only for starting position from 1.Bf4+! Qxf4+! 2.Rxf4! Kxf4! 3.exd7! Nxd7! 4.cxd7! Rxd7+! 5.Nxd7!Rxd7+! ( != there exists no other possibilities )
My worldrecord from the 6-men-endgame-database in wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_problem ) with #267 is composed in the same way of generating.
For example here 2 wrong ways in the #267 to understand what I mean :
1.Bxg2+? Kxg2 2.Qxf6 Bxf6 3.Rxg1+ hxg1D 4.Nxg1 Bxd8+ 5.Kxd8 Kxg1 ( you have KRN against KNN with remis-position ) or
1.Bxg2+? Kxg2 2.Qxf6 Nxf6 3.Rxg1+ hxg1D 4.Nxg1 Bxd8+ 5.Kxd8 Kxg1 ( you have KRN against KNN with another remis-position )
and now the only correct way to mate :
1.Qxf6! Bxf6! 2.Bxf6! Nxf6! 3.Bxg2+! Kxg2! 4.Rxg1+! hxg1Q! 5.Nxg1! Kxg1! ( you have now KRN against KNN with the only winning position )
So my 2 unbroken worldrecords are coming from the mixtur of two things : 1.Generated databases with the help of computers and 2.Chesscomposition from the human brain , checked by computers.
kindly regards
Lutz Neweklowsky
Drais-1
76135 Karlsruhe
lutz.neweklowsky@gmx.de

[guyhaw]

Lutz,

This is very ingenious, and I am beginning to understand what you did.
The point that 'Codeman' Edmund, and I think syzygy, are making is that:
Marc Bourzutschky's 7-man EGT minimaxes to the 'Depth to Conversion' metric, not to the 'Depth to Mate' metric.
Had the two sides been minimaxing to the Depth to Mate metric instead, the line would finish up maybe somewhere else, conversion might not have been on move 522 and mate might not be on move 530. Certainly mate would not come before move 522 in your position, so it is certainly 'well deep', and I would not expect the variation around '530' to be very large.

The other point I would make is that some of White's moves might have had equi-DTM-optimal options, in which case the solution is not unique. Without use of a genuine DTM EGT, it is difficult to know what the situation is.

A related 'challenge interest' is to put the most plausible game possible on the front of the 'win in 517' to create a long, 'bionic' game.

Thanks for the position - Guy